'Indonesia to continue strengthening ties with Turkey'

Indonesia's outgoing vice president spoke on growing ties with Turkey, and voiced his country’s support for the Afghan peace process, stating that Jakarta will hold a trilateral peace meeting with Pakistan and Afghanistan where the Taliban will be invited as well as local Muslim scholars .

In an exclusive interview with Anadolu Agency at his office this week in Jakarta, Muhammad Jusuf Kalla also spoke about Indonesia’s role in several regional and global issues, including the Rohingya refugee crisis, U.S.-China trade war, political crisis in Thailand, the new autonomous law for Philippines’ Bangsamoro region, and Turkish-Indonesian relations.

Anadolu Agency: You’ve served twice as vice president, under Presidents Soesilo Bambang Yudhoyono and Joko Widodo. What’s the most unforgettable role that you contributed to each government?

Muhammad Jusuf Kalla: Ten years in two periods is quite a long time, there are a lot of things we have accomplished. First, the peace issues in Indonesia, Alhamdulillah, this time we have been able to resolve them all.

Second, with Mr. Yudhoyono and Mr. Widodo we solved economic problems and political stability together. That is important, because we can’t solve economic problems without political stability.

Q: One of your most memorable public roles is as a great peacemaker. You led the peace process in Ambon and became the initiator of peace in Aceh. Considering this experience, Indonesia actually has the competence to be a peace initiator in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), such as in the southern Philippines, southern Thailand, and the Rohingya crisis. You also conveyed this idea at an ASEAN forum. Is there any obstacle in the process that you can share?

JUSUF KALLA: The issue of peace depends so much on both parties and their desire for peace. If both parties have a strong determination, we can easily formulate a solution for peace.

Actually, we have tried to get involved in the peace process in Thailand several times. I met with their representatives several times to discuss the matter, although Thai internal politics disrupted these efforts, like the Rohingya in Myanmar.

I, myself, went there [Myanmar] two or three times. Currently, we are building a hospital as part of the unifying efforts.

Indonesia is also active in the Afghan peace process. We will hold trilateral meetings and invite more Muslim scholars from Afghanistan and Pakistan in the near future. We also plan to invite the Taliban.

We made every move we can. But it takes time as each country faces a different domestic situation.

Q: As for the Southern Philippines’ Bangsamoro case, you were one of the figures who played a key role in the reconciliation process, and the situation is clearly much better now. Are there any tips, advice, or information you can share with us on this?

JUSUF KALLA: Back then, when Kivlan Zen led the peacekeeping team in the area, I participated in the peace process. Malaysia is taking the initiative nowadays, while Indonesia is still showing support for the peace process.

We want them to grant autonomy in the southern Philippines. It has been granted through the law and through coordination with Malaysia. So the current situation is much safer than before.

Q: Now in the southern Philippines, the people of Bangsamoro have gotten their rights. What can Indonesia do to help maintain a sustainable peace in the Bangsamoro autonomous region?

JUSUF KALLA: It has become a domestic Philippines affair. Since they have created a new law giving greater autonomy for Bangsamoro, now it depends on their people. What makes it hard is there are too many weapons. [Almost] everybody carries weapons. Small problems can easily turn into conflict.

Q: What concrete ideas are there to bring peace to the southern Thailand conflicts?

JUSUF KALLA: The Thai prime minister and military commander have visited Indonesia a few times to explore similar experiences. We also talked to Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha several times, but there’s still no agreement. Hopefully the negotiations can continue later.

Q: Back home, amid the political turmoil following April’s general election, you’re expected to become a mediator in resolving the election dispute between Joko Widodo and Prabowo Subianto. What will you do to prevent horizontal conflicts that might occur?

JUSUF KALLA: We’re satisfied and pleased that the election dispute will be resolved through the Constitutional Court, and both parties have agreed to accept any decision as long as the Constitutional Court stays independent from political bias. So we will just wait for the final decision and hopefully everything goes well. Today, when the hearing began, there were no mass protests. Moreover, Subianto has urged his supporters to act in accordance with the Constitution. I’m sure that everything will be all right. And that is the rule of our law. If you’re not satisfied, then go complain to the Constitutional Court.

Q: During the era of Widodo’s leadership you played a key role in establishing trade ties between Indonesia and Turkey. How do you see bilateral economic relations over the past five years, and how do you see their future?

JUSUF KALLA: Our trade relations continue to grow in various fields, including energy and power. Turkey's role is quite good. The only obstacle is distance. However, we still have a chance to improve, as Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. Maybe we can consider it a supporting factor. But when it comes to trade, it’s always about what’s better and what’s worse.

There were indeed changes in the Turkish political situation that led to some adjustments in trade relations. But Indonesia still sees Turkey as a very good friend.

Q: What are the biggest challenges faced by your successor as the next vice president?

JUSUF KALLA: Basically, the vice president's duty is to help the president build the nation in economic, political and social areas as well as carry out special tasks agreed together with the president. Like in the era of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, I handled economic development in particular. Even though conditions are different now, all decisions are taken together. Therefore, togetherness is important to build the nation.

Q: What are your plans going forward after your service as vice president ends?

JUSUF KALLA: First, I want to enjoy my retirement. I’m already 77 years old. Of course, I want to enjoy my life, play with my grandchildren, travel, and a lot more. Besides that, I also plan to continue to take care of social, religious and education affairs. I still serve as chairman of the Indonesian Mosque Council (DMI) and Indonesian Red Cross as well as being an advisor to several universities.

Q: What is your message for Turkish society?

JUSUF KALLA: We want to convey our gratitude for all cooperation that we have, especially to President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has a good relationship with President Jokowi and me. We will continue cultivating our relationship. As our citizens love to travel to Turkey, we would like to invite Turkish citizens to see many beautiful places in Indonesia as well.

Q: What opportunities do you see for Indonesia in the trade war between the U.S. and China?

JUSUF KALLA: The China-U.S. trade war has a negative effect which will reduce trade between the two countries. If Chinese exports decline, then the demand for industrial goods and raw materials from Indonesia will also drop. The positive effect is the possibility that Chinese investment will move to southeast Asia, as we have a free trade pact with Beijing and a Generalized System of Preferences (GSP) with the U.S. Indonesian materials could be alternative substitute for goods from China. Currently, Chinese investment in Indonesia keeps growing. In Central Sulawesi, it reaches tens of trillions. I hope it will continue to grow as the labor wages here are still lower than in their country. So, we’re still working on that.

Q: How do you see Indonesia’s role in the Afghan peace process?

JUSUF KALLA: First, Indonesia is the country with the largest Islamic population, and Afghanistan is a country with a large group of Islamic organizations. We hope that they can reach reconciliation, between the government under President Ashraf Ghani and the Taliban, which controls several areas. We offer the idea of reconciliation with power-sharing between both parties. Indonesia is ready to accept them being trained in Indonesia to help them achieve peace and reconciliation so that Muslims are no longer divided.

Q: How do you see Indonesia’s role in hosting refugees and the Rohingya in particular?

JUSUF KALLA: Indonesia accommodating refugees is nothing new. Years ago, after the Vietnam war, we hosted Vietnamese refugees on Galang Island until the UNHCR resettled them to a third country that agreed to admit them and ultimately grant them permanent settlement. It’s the same with Rohingya refugees. Indonesia is not their original destination. They want to live and get jobs in better-developed countries. Therefore, we hosted them in accordance with one of our country’s foundational philosophies of just and civilized humanity.